A Ballot Behind Bars
Apparently we’re breaking the law. Not just me, or you, or Fred Whatsisname down the road – but the whole country! The European Court of Human Rights says so, so it must be true! Bound, as we are, to whatever new trend or fad some faceless officials believe is an ‘inalienable human right’ there are a whole range of issues which we just can’t be trusted to decide for ourselves 0r our own country.
The ruling has been made as a response to our country’s refusal to allow convicted prisoners to vote in elections. Apparently, it is their ‘human right’ to cast a vote, regardless of whether they’ve killed somebody, raped somebody, stolen somebody’s life savings or smashed somebody down while drunk behind the wheel of their car.
Maybe I’m being unfair. Jack Straw’s proposal to try and meet the ECHR halfway appears to be to allow people who have been sentenced for less than four years the right to vote – not all prisoners. So, given some of the sentencing we’ve seen in recent years that’ll mean that they can vote regardless of whether they’ve killed somebody, raped somebody, stolen somebody’s life savings or smashed somebody down while drunk behind the wheel of their car.
Look – I’m not opposed to the idea of Human Rights. There are some things which, as civilised human beings, we must be able to agree every individual has a right to. Freedom of expression. Protection from violence and crime. A fair trial. But we must surely accept that those rights go hand-in-hand with responsibilities. If you punch somebody in the face then you have failed in your responsibility to keep the peace and should not be surprised to be punched right back. If you steal from somebody then your freedom of expression will be reduced due to spending some time behind bars to pay for your crime.
When you are found guilty of a crime you must then realise that part of your punishment will be the removal of some of your rights. Not all of them, of course. Even locked up, we can’t allow people to be the victim of violence. Or we shouldn’t, anyway. But your right to participate in civic activities must certainly be curtailed because, by failing in your responsibility to the community, you have lost your right to participate.
Prisoners should no more be allowed to vote than they should be allowed out for a day to go on a peace march, or a political rally, or to a pop concert, or to their friend’s birthday party. They have surrendered the right to do so by virtue of the crime which has caused them to be incarcerated.
Perhaps Labour see this as an opportunity to pick up 28,000 or so ‘prisoner’ votes. I wouldn’t bet on it. These guys and girls may have committed a crime, but that certainly doesn’t mean they are stupid. I doubt many would vote Labour even if the opportunity arose. Which I very much hope it does not.




C'llr 10 Achievement Awards
Top 10 UK Councillor Blogs 2011
Top 50 UK Conservative Blogs 2011
Top 50 UK Right Wing Blogs 2011
Total Politics Councillor Awards – Highest Conservative In Top 10
UK Councillor Blogs Top 30
UK Councillor Blogs Top 30
UK Politics Blogs Top 200
UK Right Blogs Top 100
UK Right-Wing Blogs Top 100
UK Tory Blogs Top 100
UK Tory Blogs Top 100
Well, I am not a faceless official, and I think that in a democracy every adult should be allowed to vote, just as a matter of principal.
As I would imagine your principals are different from mine, Steve, here are some pragmatic reasons:
Some laws are stupid(i am sure we all have different opinions on which) and voting gives prisoners at least a minimal right to protest.
Assuming we want such prisoners to rejoin society in a productive way, then encouraging them to take part in society (by voting) can only help.
Prisoner voting can help stem the tendency of some societies to lock up lots of their populace – its not happened here, thank goodness(though it has in the past), but the US has a massive criminal underclass – prisoner voting might help us not go the same way, should it ever become an issue again.
Prisoner voting is a protection against authortarian governments. Start locking people up who disagree with you and, if they still have the vote, they can make their displeasure felt without having to resort to bombs.
However, bottom line is you either believe in democracy wholeheartedly or you do not. Putting restrictions on who can and cannot vote is a thin edge of a nasty wedge.
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response: You make some fair points, but the fact is I do not (nor ever will) accept that life comes with rights but without responsibilities. Society requires that in order to enjoy freedom, safety and civic participation you follow the codes of behaviour that society has set down. If you do not, expect your punishment to include curtailment of some of those rights. The “Right to vote” is no more important than the “Right to Freedom Of Movement” or the “Right not to be imprisoned” yet both of those are immediately curtailed by incarceration for crime. Every one of the reasons you gave for prisoner votes could be solved with other solutions or safeguards. I don’t want locked-up criminals having a say in civic matters like the government of the country. They have lost that right through their criminal activities in my opinion and I don’t believe it should be returned until they have ‘done their time’. I’m sorry Justin, but your “you either believe in democracy or you don’t” is a weak argument. I could equally say: You either believe in punishment of criminals or you do not. Giving criminals the right to do what on Earth they like despite their crimes is the thin end of a nasty wedge. Clearly this isn’t black and white but a matter of personal definition.
My exs brother is in prison and he would like to vote but he votes BNP ans has swastika tatoos on face so maybe its not a really good idea this. lol
We should BRING BACK HANGING and then most of the real bastards would not be able to WHINE about voting rights because they would be DEAD.
Don’t try rights and responsibilities on me Steve, you know we are on the same page there:)
“I’m sorry Justin, but your “you either believe in democracy or you don’t” is a weak argument.”
You missed out *wholeheartedly*, thus changing the sense of my sentence, which clumsily paraphrased would read: “If you do not wholeheartedly support democracy, then you do not wholeheartedly support democracy.” Perhaps weak,certainly badly written with two ‘wholeheartedlies’. I only really added it because I really believe that you SHOULD wholeheartedly support it, and you, it seems, do not. I understand your position and even have some sympathy with it – I do not realy care whether priosners vote on not as such, I just care that we do not remove voting rights from anyone at all. Prisoners should get to vote as should everyone else. Even Tories.
On this issue, here is the kicker as far as I am concerned: Prisoner voting is an incredibly good protection against tyranny. There are other protections too, of cours, but lets put in place all the ones we can. With such protections in place, we may never need them.
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response: Your argument just doesn’t stand up, Justin. Your suggestion that “everyone must get the right to vote” as a pure ideological defence of democracy must then include; foreign visitors, children, babies. But, of course, that’s silly because there are perfectly good reasons why they are not allowed to vote. But as long as you accept that then you must also accept that there are, therefore, reasons which proclude participation in an election. I submit that being a criminal and having had some of your rights curtailed as punishment is one of them!
In regards to this as a defence against ‘tyranny’ – I’m afraid I don’t accept that premise either. People in prison would be subject to the will of the state and therefore, in a situation where tyranny was a threat, easily used, abused and terrified into supporting the system. They would likely become support for the tyrannical regime. As for the “its worth doing if it might be a defence” you might argue that giving everybody guns would also be a defence against tyranny (in fact – many Americans do argue that) but it doesn’t hold up that “anything” which might defend against tyranny is therefore automatically a good idea.
It if your leftiness which seems to engender this idea that prison is first for rehabilitation and second for punishment. Conservatives like myself mostly believe that it should be the other way around. If we want to rehabilitate prisoners via political activism then we can do that via clubs, structured debate and even political visits and such, without giving them the right to a vote that they surrendered when they committed whatever crime put them inside. Fact is, I don’t want anybody who is serving time for actions against society to have a say in how that society is run. It’s like giving Guy Fawkes a say in how the Houses Of Parliament are lit… Once they’ve done their time and are released – fine. Until then – no thanks.
Give prisoners votes? Is another stupid idea from idiots who have no life experience or the sense that god gave them.
Two close members of my family have recently done time. I would not want them to have a vote while they were locked up. They arent monsters but I do agree they have given up some rights when they commit crimes and this is one of them.
Justin Parsler is the worst kind of liberal,one who talks about criminals with no experience of them and talks about crime with starry eyes.
I work in a prison.These are people who will find something dangerous to do with a plastic spork.You can barely give them breakfast on a bad day.You do not want to give them a vote.Trust me.
“worst kind of liberal”. I shall wear that badge with pride: better that than the best kind of conservative.
Actually, though a nice soundbite, that is not fair at all, but it was too good a shot to miss.