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A Challenge For Wisbech
July 29th, 2010
A Challenge For Wisbech
A full council meeting tonight for Fenland District Council has finally managed to bring to a close (of sorts) a couple of issues which have plagued Wisbech for quite some time. First the taxi rank, in accordance with the wishes of just about everybody will now not move. Then, the Wisbech Market Place will not receive the benefit of either option 1 or option 2, but will be (subject to their negotiations) handed lock, stock and barrel to Wisbech Town Council to manage.
So – the Taxi Rank. New councillor Dave Patrick, leader of the taxi drivers, who campaigned mostly on the issue in this year’s by-election for Kirkgate will no doubt be very pleased. It’s certainly the right result from a democratic point of view given that the majority of local people support it staying where it is. However, the area will now be subject to a safety audit in order to make sure it is not a terrible accident waiting to happen. The trouble is – it could well be a terrible accident waiting to happen. Privately – a number of cab drivers have expressed their fear about it to me as have members of the public. There’s certainly a lot of vehicles in a very small area coupled with a heavy footfall. So what the safety tests will report is anybody’s guess. I just hope that Councillor Dave Patrick knows what he has let himself in for. He’s taken a very populist route, which I think is a fair and reasonable thing to do – but having set himself so thoroughly against a move for the taxi rank - anything that happens now will be laid, fairly or unfairly, at his door. Only time will tell who was right on this difficult issue. I don’t envy him this delicate position.
My views on the Town Centre are well known – I supported option 2 which was previously decided upon by the Area Joint Committee and supported by the Town Council, almost all the Wisbech councillors, the town centre traders, the Chamber of Commerce and a large section of the public. I still think the best result would have been to just get on and do Option 2. However, after all the debate and controversy, Fenland cabinet have chosen to throw a very interesting and innovative curveball. They’ve chosen to hand the responsibility for the area to Wisbech Town Council. As a committed localist I find this a very exciting suggestion. This is, after all, exactly what localism is all about. Devolve the decision to the most local body that common sense allows.
It’s a big responsibility and one that the Town Council have expressed a willingness and excitement about. Good for them! The ball is now in their court, as it were. Let’s see where they go with it. Any support they need at county level they will certainly get from the Wisbech County Councillors. I just hope that the controversy is now over and we can get on and implement something which will benefit traders, shoppers and all the residents of – and visitors to – Wisbech. The capital of the Fens.
A lively and serious debate was had tonight and I was impressed by many who spoke. Particularly Cllr. Roger Green, Cllr. Simon King, Cllr. Jan French and the fiery leader Alan Melton. Kudos must particularly be given to council leader Alan Melton and his cabinet for being so creative in their ideas and also being so willing to take on board the views expressed to them. Whatever criticism anybody might want to level – I don’t think anybody can fairly say they haven’t been responsive and imaginative. Equally, Wisbech Town Council have shown a willingness to get their hands dirty and a great deal of courage in stepping up to this potential new responsibility. Both administrations have emerged looking modern, cooperative and intelligent. Some will argue that this isn’t perfect – and they’d be right. But nothing is perfect. This is, however, fair. I don’t think we could ask for more than that.
21 Responses to “A Challenge For Wisbech”
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Wikio
The decision was right , give local councillors that right to make decisions for the people of Wisbech they know what the locals want.We have all learnt from this and hope we don’t make the same errors in the future.
Mwah!!!
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There were some notable Lib Dems at the meeting tonight.
When they flock in this way there is always trouble brewing.
I wonder what spin theyre putting on it?
I’m curious, now that decision making on this matter is trasnferred to Wisbech, is the legal responsibility transferred too? If a safety audit on the taxis finds against the current state of affairs are they required by law to make a change. If they are not required to by law but no change is made and someone is injured is the Town Council (and its budget) rather than the FDC now legally, financially (and perhaps even personally responsible).
Also would Mr Patrick have to remove himself from such a decision making on this topic as his day job would indicate has a direct financial interest in the outcome of a taxi siting decision.
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
The Taxi Rank has not been devolved to Town Council, only (potentially) the Market Place. Councils are insured for public libaility on the areas they cover – the town already does control land and public space (allotments, the town hall etc.)
Funny you should ask about declaring interests for Mr Patrick. He did declare a “personal” interest and then spoke (briefly) as well. I was surprised. I would have thought his was a prejudicial interest and he probably should have taken no part in the debate – but he chose to do so and it is his decision. I would imagine he took legal advice from officers about it. What he said was pretty innocuous so I can’t see any harm coming from it or anybody making an official complaint. Though, I have to wonder, if a Conservative had taken the same decision if the opposition (such as it is) might not have made a complaint?
Very good outcome!! Alls well that ends well but it is over?
thank you for letting us know. You are the best source for politics news in the area.
This souds like good decisions. Local councils are not this good in my home town
Didn’t the great leader also throw down a challenge to the coven of Wisbech County Councillors there ? And is ‘coven’ the correct collective noun ?
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
He “sort of” did, yes. Which is why I wrote in my blog post that the town council will certainly get the support they need from the local county councillors.
I’ll look forward to the proposals from the Town Council and will be happy to fight Wisbech’s corner as necessary – though I don’t need Alan Melton’s encouragement to do that, it’s my job.
The collective noun you are searching is “dedication” as in a “dedication of Conservative councillors.” But the collective noun changes by party. So its a “macchiavelli of Lib Dem councillors,” a “circus of UKIP councillors,” a “nightmare of Labour councillors,” and a “confusion of independents.”
What a fantastic example of ‘thinking outside the box’ (lateral thinking is the posh name)by Alan Melton and his cabinet colleagues?
I hope this idea of giving local control of local assets such as Market Places will be carried out in all the towns. If March Town Council had control of their Market Place we wouldn’t have had the withdrawal of the charity stall facility not would we have the pathetic run down of the market facilties wqhich has taken place.
Personally, i would give much more control and responsibility to Town Councils for local facilities such as parks and play areas, toilets, cemeteries etc.
these are not God given rights for District Councils. In fact, in Ely the council there has been responsible for play areas and cemeteries for years and even ’shared equity’ housing.
The closer you get to the people with this sort of thing the more they will take on ‘ownership’ and responsibility.
Power to the People
Good on you Alan!
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
It’s called localism Reg. It’s what I’ve been banging on about for the last couple of years – its the idea behind the book “The Plan” I encouraged you to read – and it’s what the Conservative government promised was going to happen. I’m glad you like it! Sometimes, I guess, it just takes a working example to properly make the case.
However, while localism is a wonderful idea and (in my opinion) the right way forwards in many areas – it does not automatically deliver a better service. It all depends on the final tier of decision-makers and what they choose to do. Even localism cannot make money where there is no money – it can only devolve the decision of how to use scant resources to the most local level. And thereby also devolve the accountability.
You can’t presume, for instance, that March Town Council would necessarily protect the things you mention if they gained power over them. They may cut even more dramatically. Its just that the “difficult decisions” get placed in the hands of very local people who then must “face the music” which is sometimes less melodic that they’d hoped.
Nevertheless, it’s great to finally have you on board for the localism cause I’ve been championing all this time. There’s hope yet!
…a “Weed/Cabbage of Green councillors” and a “Reich of BNP councillors” to complete the set?
How long before the safety audit and a decision(s) is/are made?
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
Well Town Council will probably decide (positively) quite quickly – would be my guess. The safety audit – anybody’s guess. When you pay a company to come and look at a busy area and say (in a multi-page and very official manner) “Yes, it’s very busy isn’t it” well – these things take time.
Let’s go the whole hog and abolish FDC. Power and assets back to local councils – pre 1974.
Come on Steve – you can’t claim ownership of localism as thought it was your idea. Why do you think I keep giving FDC stick about their decision making (which you regularly criticise me about). It’s because they don’t consult sufficiently and have an officer led ‘Empire Building’mentality that treats Town Councils as though they’re something the cat dragged in most of the time. The March Market ‘charity stall’episode was just one example, there are plenty more.
You might be interested to know that when we first moved to March from Ely about 10 years ago, I wrote to the then Town Mayor Cllr Barry Wales to ask why the Town Council wasn’t responsible for any local amenities. Predictably I didn’t get a response (new boy sticking his oar in – we don’t want that)
This Wisbech decision is a step in the right direction but My God it’s been a long time coming!
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
I’m not claiming ownership of localism. However, I am the only local politician from any party who has been consistently, comprehensively and unfailing supporting localism for years – not just since May when Eric Pickles starting saying “localism, localism, localism” – but for years. It certainly wasn’t my idea (its current foundations are arguably with Dan Hannan and Douglas Carswell, though elements of it go back much further) – but I have been an “all weather” prolific supporter since long before it was fashionable to be such. So, I believe I have every right to nod with quiet satisfaction when localism begins to be introduced from areas which have never before even given the ideology the time of day.
Reg, clearly you are becoming a professional politician or at least using their tactics, in the case the strawman argument in stating that Steve claims to have invested localism which conventiently ignores his hat tip to “The Plan” cleverly hidden here nobody would suspect it – in line two of his response to you.
I think localism is wrong headed but I don’t blame steve for an exclusive role in inventing it (merely supporting it)that would be either ignorance or willful ignorance (or a senior moment).
Sorry I am late in responding. Work load etc you know how it is. However I have to say that the Horsefair saftey is as such that however busy it is there has never been an accident involving the public. However I have called for a meeting with Kit Owen and Mike Gipp officer to see whether improvements can be made to the working arrangements on the Horsefair. The volume of traffic on the horsefair is not helped by the number of private vehicles that go there despite “NO ENTRY SIGNS” to all but buses taxis and delivery vehicles.
With regards to the Market Place I beleive that the transfer of Ownership of the Market Place to Wisbech Town Council to be a most poisoned chalice bearing in mind the almost 50/50 opinion of the people of Wisbech
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
You’re right about the Market Place being a potential poison chalice – but that’s okay. That’s the price of localism. You get the power but also the responsibility and the accountability. It is indeed a thorny issue (although I think the popular way forwards is fairly clear now) but who better to decide thorny issues than the people closest to them?
I would suggest that your taxi rank victory is also a poison chalice for you in particular. You’re right about the low rate of accidents and that is an important consideration – but do we really need to wait until somebody is badly hurt or killed before acknowledging a potential problem? There is no doubt in my mind that the current situation is dangerous. The thing is, having flown your flag over “not moving the taxi rank” in such a public way you are now inextricably tied to that decision. Public mood is a fickle thing. As is the media. I don’t mean this in a party political way – but you could easily find this particular issue comes back to haunt you.
Hey Dave, You sound like a councillor! whatever the ultimate outcome, better the decision is made by the people of Wisbech, rather than a motley group of councillors, some of whom may well see Wisbech as foreign territory!
I’ve read the Plan Adam and was quite pleased to see it agreed with my views! How can you say you don’t agree with localism because that’s what local government is supposed to be about? As Steve says, the closer to the people affected the decision making, the better where local affairs are concerned. It’s by ignoring what I would have thought is self evident that we have a lot of disaffected electors.
I wouldn’t abolish FDC Chatty but I would certainly look to kick the County Council into touch – they’re far too removed from the local electorate and most of their work is dictated by government anyway.
Having been away for a couple of days the first thing I did when I got back (after unlocking the door)was to look up the Cambs Times 24 website only to find it’s gone bananas again for the umpteenth time. Has anyone else had that experience? As I said to JE recently I don’t know why Archant messed with it in the first place (talk about if it ain’t broke don’t fix it)
Town council, district council – they are all as dumb as each other. Fenland has a great history of electing idiots. Not that the opposition are any better. They are idiots too. The reason your band of muppets keeps taking seats is because the muppets who try to stop them are probably worse. I dont see why we need councils. Sack the lot, privatise every function worth keeping and dump the rest. Save us all a fortune. Council tax would be less than half what it is and services would get better.
Reg I don’t agree with ‘The Plan’. One of the authors thought Iceland had the right economic paradigm. Oops!
You said, “and was quite pleased to see it agreed with my views!” I presume this was self-parody, riffing on your claims about steve inventing localism.
My problem with localism is that so much against devolving power but to whom that power get given to. In my limited experience and observation of local government in various countries; low level councillors are at best ill equipped to handle the responsibility localism would give them, they massively overestimate their own abilities, are contemputuous of professional advice, and have so many clashes of interest so that it is almost impossible to make reasonably objective decisions. The lower level they are, the more apparent these shortcomings are.
Ask yourself this hypothetical question should a taxi driver be involved in making decisions on whether the taxi rank should be moved to?
Giving everything to parish councillors/street groups/block committees etc simply reinforces failure.
Poor decision makers typically make poor decisions, that’s why I don’t like localism – I’m not against it in principle (it’s nice to see idealism raise its head now and again) just in practice.
Bit of venting for you.
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
I wont bother. There’s too much of this I completely disagree with. It would take too long.
You have a very low opinion of the ability of local people to make the correct decisions Adam. Not everyone acts with self interest in mind and most of the people in government today came up through the local government system or if they didn’t they should have done.
Dave Patrick represented the views of a great many local people over the taxi rank fiasco. If he didn’t he wouldn’t have got elected in a ’safe’ Conservative seat.
‘Trust the People’ is my watchword to quote Lord Randolph Churchill in a speech he made in 1884.
Watching developments with interest.
Best plan ever or accident waiting to happen?
We’ll see!!
This business of accidents waiting to happen has been a whopping great red herring ever since Kit Owen used
H & S as the main reason for removing the taxis from the bus station without any evidence to support that assertion.
However, it might be helpful, if there were a point somewhere adjeacent to the bus station, from where one could hail a taxi from the waiting area (perhaps there already is one and I haven’t noticed). If not DP please note.
I believe March Town Council at their meeting on Monday, voted resoundingly against any intention of taking on the running of their Market Place. If that is the case it’s an opportunity lost in my view because I’m sure they could do it more effectively and efficiently than FDC Markets Dept. Even if they don’t take on the logistics they should certainly have a stronger say in future and perhaps take an active role in improvements.
What is the point in holding grandiose Italian or French Markets on Sundays which probably have to be subsidised, whilst allowing the regular market to look so unnatractive. If it wasn’t for the fruit and veg man bringing his own equipment you wouldn’t know it was a market!
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
I don’t believe “accidents waiting to happen” is a red herring as such. Sometimes it is used incorrectly. But if we wait for somebody to die in order to make a dangerous place safer that seems an incredibly grisly way to take decisions. I prefer to take decisions based on common sense and logic and – as you rightly say – evidence.
There is quite a lot of evidence that the Horse Fair is dangerous. Much of it circumstantial, I’d agree, but there are plenty of “near misses” and issues that people and drivers have raised. There is also (apparently) a damning safety report – though I have not seen it so can’t comment on its credibility. Several taxi drivers have privately said to me that they feel uneasy about the location and do not agree with the view of Cllr. Patrick. Even this week, in the Wisbech Standard, Dave Patrick says: “I have spoken to all the taxi drivers and absolutely most of them prefer to stay where they are.” I find the term “absolutely most” to be an interesting one.
I’m not defending Kit Owen. Cllr. Owen has the best interests of the people at heart I am sure, but I have previously expressed surprise at the way he handled this. This does not mean that he’s wrong, though. I’m not sure that he IS wrong. So I’m in an unusual position – on the one hand I’m glad the local people made their voices heard and democracy flexed its muscles. On the other hand I’m worried that in this instance the wrong decision has been arrived at. This could have been avoided, I feel, by more public discussion and accountability in order to make the case for the “accident waiting to happen” if the evidence is there. That’s where the proponents of the move went wrong, I feel.
I should add that IF it were to turn out that all this was about was European Legislation (as some rumours suggested) then I’d be utterly opposed to the move and would prefer to tell the EU to go jump (much like the French do every time they don’t like something the EU decides.) But rumours are often just rumours.
I don’t have low expectations of people, just many of the councillors they represent. The Horse Fair is potentially very dangerous, based on my own use and observation of it. Just because it’s popular to keep it as is, doesn’t mean it’s a responsible thing to do. I don’t want popular I want things done right.
As for local government being the well spring of political brilliance at the national level can you name any prime minister who followed this route? I can’t off the top of my head. As far as I’m concerned its too often a case of amateur hour with my rates.
Moderator (Steve Tierney)’s Response:
I think the balance, Adam, is between “popular” and “right”. People always think they’re right and the larger the organisation and more official the title the more likely they are to think they’re right. This does not necessarily mean they ARE right.
A council or even a government is working for the people and is paid by the people and should therefore reflect the will of the people to at least a reasonable effect. If you hired a gardener and you told your gardener you wanted all the weeds left as they are but the gardener, in his wisdom, cut them all down because his experience told him that it was the right thing to do – you’d still, I suspect, be bloody angry. Particularly if you had some reason – providing a habitat for rare beetles or something.
The right way forwards is to do the proper research (including finding out what the public want), then make the decision with all the facts you can find to hand and trying to “take the people with you” by explaining your case publicly. Even then, you should not be close-minded. There is a lot of evidence for “the wisdom of crowds” in certain circumstances and local people will inevitably know things you do not. When finally, you enact the decision that it is in your power to enact you must then face the electoral consquences if you have made the wrong decision (this final accountability is only available if the decision was taken locally enough – hence the main power of localism.)
Your comment: “I don’t want popular decisions I want ‘right’ decisions” supposes that there is always an obvious “right” decision. It’s rarely that clear cut – and people who swear they absolutely know the “right” decision are inevitably displaying profound arrogance.
I agree the Horse Fair seems dangerous. But if we try to remove all danger from the world then we end up with this ridiculous “health and safety” culture that requires three men to use a step-ladder and goggles and kevlar for games of marbles. So the question, really, is: “is the level of danger sufficient that the taxis should be moved?”
I haven’t seen the safety report so I can’t answer that fully. My suspicion is that it probably is that dangerous – but I wouldn’t presume to “know” I’m “right.” Either way, the failing of the people who wanted to move the rank was not in raising the issue – but in failing to “take the people with them” and consequently ending up with a wall of public opinion against them. This allowed parties who have a commercial interest rather than the safety of the public to guide the debate. Epic Fail.
I’ve travelled on the bus from March to Wisbech and back today on my weekly visit to Peckover House.
Seems to me there is more of a hazard created by buses backing out from their bays. Perhaps they should be relocated?
I really don’t know where all this H & S stuff came from – it’s not as though pedestrians are wandering about all over the place. It all seems very orderly to me. Why hasn’t the safety report been made public otherwise how do we know it exists?
Incidentally Steve I withdraw my comment a while back about nowhere on the Market Place except perhaps the Rose & Crown, where one can get refreshments. Had a very nice cuppa and some toast in a very busy cafe called Loafers.
What a nice change it was to find the work on the Brink has finally been completed and it’s business as usual at Peckover after a very trying time for all concerned. Particularly visitors who arrived by coach and had to be let in via the back door on Chapel Road and all the hazards that entailed. Lord Peckover would not have been amused! All we need now is for the unsightly scaffolding to be removed from the doomed Phoenix (will it rise from the ashes I wonder)?